Storytelling in Community Action
DATE: December 10, 2024
Can’t listen or watch right now? Scroll down for a full transcript!
Episode Description:
What’s the secret to boosting your nonprofit’s brand awareness? It starts with authentic storytelling! In this episode of the ThinkingCAAP podcast, CAAP’s CEO Beck Moore, sits down with Heather Holloway, founder of Holloway Media Services, to explore the transformative power of storytelling in the community action and nonprofit world. Discover how aligning your personal values with your nonprofit’s mission can create powerful, trust-building narratives. Heather shares why starting with your “why” and weaving your core values into your stories can inspire action, deepen connections, and amplify your impact.
Ready to elevate your nonprofit’s storytelling? Tune in now!
ThinkingCAAP: Episode 5 Highlights
[01:23] Importance of Storytelling in Community Action
Beck and Heather discuss the critical role of storytelling in community action and the challenge of different agency structures.
[2:13] Authenticity and Passion in Storytelling
Heather shares her experience in news media and emphasizes the importance of authenticity and passion in storytelling to create meaningful impact.
[5:00] Starting with Why
Beck and Heather stress the significance of aligning personal values with the organization's mission to effectively communicate and engage with their audience.
[10:22] Building Brand Awareness
Heather delves into the visual and verbal components of branding, highlighting the importance of consistency and psychological appeal in creating a recognizable and impactful brand.
[13:54] Importance of Language in Branding
Heather shares how language matters in branding and how they have eliminated aggressive language at Holloway Media Services.
She emphasizes the importance of relatable colors, logos, and words to evoke action.
[15:42] Rebranding and Brand Unity
Beck discusses the rebranding efforts at CAAP to modernize their image and create a unified brand for their members.
They intentionally use the huggy heart logo to symbolize care and unity within their network.
[17:29] Starting Block for Executive Directors
Beck and Heather discuss the essential starting blocks for executive directors without marketing experience.
They emphasize the importance of having a website and being intentional about the target audience and purpose of the website and social media presence.
[19:25] Website and Audience Intention
Heather highlights the necessity of a website and the importance of being intentional about the target audience for the website.
She emphasizes the role of the website in providing information for funders and clients.
[24:23] The Vast Network of Community Action
Heather expresses her surprise at the vastness of the community action network and the wide range of services provided by the agencies.
She expresses pride in the caregivers and the impact they have in the state of Pennsylvania.
[26:56] The Importance of Fundraising and Communication
Heather discusses the importance of fundraising and communication in order to support the organization and ensure people know they can rely on them for help.
[27:29] Impact of helping 500,000 people
Beck reflects on the significant impact of helping 500,000 people, likening it to filling five college football stadiums.
Heather expresses her appreciation for being a part of such a large-scale effort.
[27:34] Gratitude and Partnership
Heather expresses gratitude for the opportunity to be a part of the organization's work, while Beck thanks her for her time, talent, and resources, highlighting the partnership with Holloway Media Services.
[27:46] Closing remarks
Beck thanks Heather and the listeners, encourages them to send in questions for future episodes, and concludes the episode with well wishes.
[28:05] Closing credits and call to action
Beck reminds listeners to check the show notes for resources and links, subscribe, and follow for future episodes, and encourages them to email their questions about community action to the provided email address.
Transcript of Episode 5: Storytelling in Community Action
00:00:00
Welcome, everybody, to the ThinkingCAAP. We're excited today to have a special guest, Heather Holloway from Holloway Media Services. What's up, Heather? Hey, what's up, people? Unfortunately, Amanda Hoprich, who is my co host, is sick today.
00:00:16
So we wish her well as she's on the road to recovery from a little bit of that fall gross cold season that she's dealing with. But happy to be here with Heather today to talk about a really important topic, which is about storytelling, to just such a critical part of community action. So thank you again, Heather, for being here. We're excited to have you.
Well, it's a thrill and an honor.
00:00:35
Thank you so much for the opportunity to jam with you. And I will be playing the part of Amanda. I don't have the long hair, but we wish her well and soon.
A: It's true. You gotta get a good lash fill to really harness Amanda's energy, just so you know.
00:00:47
And for those of you who haven't seen us, that's a critical part of Amanda's. Amanda's look. So, again, right. We're here to talk about, really, storytelling. And one of the things that I want to level set on first is a little bit about the structure of community action.
00:01:01
So, as we've talked about before, we have 43 agencies across the state of Pennsylvania. We touch every single county, and each structure of our organizations are vastly different. Right. So address the local need and responsive about what the local funding streams are, et cetera. But a critical part of not just our agencies, but also the association is telling the story of what our agencies do.
00:01:23
And a lot of times, right in the world of fund development and fundraising and communications, we find that the staffing structure, again, is very different. Some have devoted marketing professionals, some have devoted fundraising professionals, some have a marriage of those two roles, and some have none. And so we're always trying to educate our agencies on just the basics of storytelling. And so from that vantage point. Right.
00:01:48
One of the things that was really embedded in me is this idea of if you can tell the story passionately and authentically, it goes really, really far. And I know that this is something that you're really passionate about, is about telling story authentically. Right. So I think, what are some of the cornerstones from your perspective? And what advice would you give to someone who's really starting out in being the face of their organization, Just starting out to try to have, you know, part of the responsibility is telling the story.
00:02:13
What's some of the cornerstones of that? What advice would you give to them?
Heather: Yeah, well, I'll talk about my own experience with Holloway Media Services and being at the front. The face of Holloway. Right.
00:02:24
It's my name on the business. So it makes sense that I'm the one out there, you know, carrying the rally flag and selling business. So I've been lucky that in my career, in my, in my two, three decades of professionally working. I mean, three decades. I mean, let's go.
00:02:46
No, two decades. Yeah, I don't like. I don't like doing that to be. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No math.
00:02:52
No math. No cat math today. Anyway, so. But for two decades, I worked in news, so television, and radio. And I am so thankful for that experience because it really taught me how to trim the fat, get down to, you know, the, the nitty gritty of the who, what, where, when, and why of the deal.
00:03:18
And so I had to become very good at getting somebody to feel something in as little as 30 seconds. Right. Yeah. You know, and then I, I was able to take all of that experience and turn it into a business at Holloway Media Services, where we do social media marketing.
00:03:39
Difference being television and radio has a longer shelf life. Sure. You have one story that you run for decades. Think Cadbury Bunny. If you think Cadbury Eggs.
00:03:53
Right. You hear that? Right? That commercial that started back in the mid-90s. They still air that commercial today.
00:04:03
Why? It's a really fun, cute story. Seeing a lion with little. That's immediately what I think about. Is that lion.
00:04:12
Yeah, right, exactly. But they were able to cleverly, in a fun way, share their brand. So, you know, if you're thinking Heather, you think Cadbury Bunnies. Right. Well, how do we do that with.
00:04:27
With what we're doing today with digital marketing? Because it has a such a short shelf life? Well, we have to trim the fat and get to the. The real deal, the heart of the matter. And with the work you do, you have those stories everywhere all day.
00:04:46
So now, how do we bring this all together? How do you, as an individual guiding an agency, share stories that matter? Will. It sort of, kind of does. Start with you as the leader.
00:05:00
As the leader of the agency, what are your values? There's a reason why you're working for a community agency association. What is that? What's your why? You know, you've ever heard of Simon Sinek?
00:05:15
Start with why. You know, it's. It couldn't be truer. But it's often difficult because we want to go with the, the how we do the things. Sure.
00:05:27
How do we go about social determinants of health? How do we go about funding this initiative versus that initiative? That's not the heart of the matter. It's why we are doing these things. So if you can marry your beliefs and your values that are relevant to the organization you're working with and for.
00:05:50
To the rally cry of the organization, that's what moves mountains. That's what creates movements. Yeah. You know, it's really, it's interesting that you put it in that context because that's part of the way that we've tried to think about how we tell the story at CAAP about our agencies. It's not so much about each of the programs.
00:06:11
And that's part of our branding challenge. Right. Because every agency has a different approach. Every, every agency has a different list of programs that they manage. It's not about that.
00:06:18
At the end of the day, it's what are the pieces that really. What's the feeling? Right. What's the impact that local person. And I think every.
00:06:28
That's the one thing I, you know, I really appreciate about all of our agencies is that every single one of our executive directors, our case managers, the frontline staff, they all have a personal connection to this work, either because they might have been a client or they had lived experience or they've impacted so many people's lives and they've heard the thanks. And so I think that mission sort of. Right. A connection to mission approach is so super critical. And people, people know when you care.
00:06:56
Right. There's a different tone in your voice. There's a different way you move your, you move your head. There's a different way that you lean into the conversation. You feel that so directly.
00:07:06
Yes. Because we're, we're all energetic beings. I'm gonna go a little, just a little woo here. We're all made of energy, and that energy doesn't lie, like you said. Right.
00:07:17
It's that sixth sense. It's the, the, the brain, the gut brain. And, and then, then the physical brain is like you. You can tell. You can smell it.
00:07:26
If it ain't, you know, if it's not good, you can smell it. Absolutely. So how. So then how do we craft messages that are authentic that you can break through the digital wall? Well, I'll tell you, the, the people that you're helping really should be writing your copy.
00:07:47
The people that you're helping, you have, you must. Right now, if you're going to use any marketing, you must be a better listener than you are a talker. Because when you go to speak online, on social, on email, on press releases, on the News on interviews, on podcasts, just like this. If you want to be authentic, you have to come from a lived experience. You may not be the person on the street that needs your help, so you better go and get that experience somehow, some way.
00:08:24
Yeah, that's by asking and listening. Yeah, I think that's really very valid. And I know that part of the conversation. I want to just acknowledge that for our agencies, part of the challenge sometimes is how do I be respectful of the client and not make it feel like you're using the client. Because we want to be really thoughtful of creating an equitable, accessible, thoughtful space for them and not, you know, using their experience for what feels like the organizational good.
00:08:53
So there's a way to do it in a respectful manner. But I want to acknowledge that that's part of sometimes the conversation that happens on an agency level. And so I think to your point, there's a way to capture the story. You don't have to use the picture of the individual. Right.
00:09:07
But having what's in the thank you card. Right. That you receive following somebody's success. And I think listening to the client stories and making sure you have capacity to listen to the client's story so that you can really hear is really, I think, a critical, a crit part of that. So I think the other.
00:09:26
The other challenge. And we. We've talked about this in our work with. With Holloway Media. Right.
00:09:30
Like part of CAAP's (Community Action Association of Pennsylvania) journey of trying to tell the story of our agencies and making sure that we get that approach right. And building out our content library and all of those pieces has been part of a lot of the conversations you and I have had. We have a branding challenge because not every agency is called Community Action. While we've been around for officially 60 years, this year, on. On the whole in Community Action, unless a partner agency has been working with a local agency, unless you've worked alongside one of our organizations, unless you've been a client of one of our organizations, you may not know about who Community Action is on the whole.
00:10:05
And so in thinking about how to really. You've heard a little bit about the complexity of our organizations. How do you start to build that brand awareness? What are some of the things that you want to share with those that are listening about how to establish brand. Right.
00:10:22
In just a really basic sense, I think it's an important thing to understand. What advice would you give? Yeah, absolutely. So there are two things that make up your brand. You have the visual component.
00:10:34
So this is your color, your logo, you know, all the items that you're going to bring your mission to life. It could be a certain style of photos. You know, maybe you have a certain, you make it really cool tones or you have warm tones like, or you crunch the blacks. Right? Like Nike does this a lot.
00:11:00
It makes it look sporty, you know, so you have your, your visual component, then you have your verbal component. And the, the verbal component are what are the words we're using? More importantly, what are the words we're not going to use. So at Halloween Media Services, you know, we have our logo which is a little stamp that you, that it can stand alone. Like the Nike swoosh.
00:11:23
Right. If you saw the Nike Swoosh out in the wild and if you've not been living in a cave for the last 40 years, if you saw that swoosh, you'd be like Nike, right? One of the most recognized brands in the US and in the world. And in the world it's a, it's the global brand. Yeah.
00:11:38
Leader. Um, so you have, you have that, but that comes with time. That comes with educating the audience. You know, Nike just didn't come out and have the swoosh and everybody understand that that came over time. It's the credibility you, you build.
00:11:53
But, but that swoosh is the promise that this is what you can expect when you purchase our products. So Halloween Media Services, we have our little mark, our little HMS square, but then you have the square plus the name. So you know, you have your logo. Halloween Services has a particular brand palette and the reason why I picked that brand palette, it's neutral, earthy tones. I want you to sort of get a calming sense of, of if you're going to work with us and what we're about.
00:12:24
So it goes down to that. I mean this is like psychological level. So market, marketing, marketing, you know, there's a, there's a reason why we buy things. Right. There's a reason why we lean into things.
00:12:35
And I think we. Yes, not to interrupt, but I think that's part of what I would challenge us to think about in nonprofit spaces. We're a tax code, we're not a business model. Right. So how do we use the power of the for profit world to better our brands and understand how the psychology plays out?
00:12:50
I think it's an important thing. It, I think it feels a little icky sometimes when you think about it that way. If you've been in non profit space your entire career. But I would encourage us to start to think about how to use. Right.
00:13:02
The For Profit World to benefit the things that we're doing. Listen, the, the, the tactics are there for everyone, right? I want the folks that are there for the greater good to use these tactics so that we can continue to help in greater creative. Not that I want you guys to ever be out of a job, but let's end poverty, right? You know?
00:13:23
Yes, absolutely. Then we can do clean water. I don't know, we'll go and get the next one. But. Right, but so, so what you need is a solid visual component, like I said, fonts, colors and your logo.
00:13:35
And that needs to be replicated everywhere. Email signatures, business cards, letterhead, website, social media. It all needs to, to, to be the same over and over and over again. That's how you get recognition, that's how you get people to understand who you are. That's how you build your promise.
00:13:54
And then the other thing are words, you know, With Holloway Media Services, we have eliminated aggressive language because for me, my personal belief is language matters. The words we use matter. So you won't hear us shooting emails, you won't hear us blowing up chats, you won't hear us doing it. Sounds like a war zone, right? Like, like we go there, you know, it's two birds, one scone.
00:14:24
You know, it's like that's the level. But that's my brand. And if you believe in those things, you will work with me. So if you can get people to feel by being relatable with your colors, logo and words, they will take an action. And that's what we're about here.
00:14:45
Yeah. With all of our community action associations. Well, and so I will, I will share this. So when I first started here at CAAP, which we're coming up on my, my three year anniversary, I. When I first saw our brand when I was going through the interview process, it was sort of like these very 70s 80s purple pinks.
00:15:02
We looked like a law firm when I looked at our brand, you know, and it, and not necessarily an exciting one and no, you know, certainly not throwing any shade at my predecessors who went through that logoing process, but different time, you know, we looked our brand from a third party perspective. Having never heard about community action before I got here, looked like we were established in the 70s, which the association was, and it looked like something that was very sort of stoic. Right. And so when we've joked a lot in our rebranding that we've rebranded hard, but we did that intentionally. Right.
00:15:42
We wanted people to recognize that we were part of community action. So we selected the huggy heart, which is a part of our logo and part of our national logo. Because there's power in national logo. Yeah. We kept our name because our members knew us by that name, but, you know, outsiders didn't necessarily.
00:16:01
And then you see, like, to your point, right. You see that brand on just about everything, you know, to a fault, it feels like, but we do that intentionally. We also ask our members to include our logo in their materials because it unifies us and there's power in that unity. Yes, Right. And so we want to make sure that that's interwoven in our network because we are a network of human service providers.
00:16:22
Yes. A critical part. Yes. And I love that logo. I mean, you know, hands around a heart.
00:16:28
My goodness gracious. Arms around a heart. Does that not display care? Is that not what we're trying to do? Care and be for one another?
00:16:37
So, like, you know, the logo speaks volumes. If I say golden arches, what do you know? What are you gonna say? Right. McDonald's.
00:16:44
Exactly. I was there this morning. Yeah, me too. Not only. Not only is it logo, but if I go, blah, blah, blah, blah, you're like, I'm loving it.
00:16:53
Right. It's even. There's even an audio component. So we don't need to get. Unless you're doing a podcast and you can have a little audio stinger, you don't need to get to that level.
00:17:01
But my goodness gracious. Logo, colors, fonts, repeat, repeat, repeat. Have a brand guide. Whenever you're working with somebody, you hand them that brand guide and say, this is how you work with me. You know, if they're.
00:17:14
You're on stage a lot and you speak a lot. Well, you need to hand over that brand guide to. If they're, you know, creating slides for you, it must be this way, because I'm building a brand here, and that takes time and effort. Yeah, well. And I think to that end, you know, going back to.
00:17:29
Again, when I. When I first started here, it was one of the other things that I wanted to be really mindful of, is before we went out and started telling the story, what were we. What. What were we driving people to? Right?
00:17:39
Like, if we were going to send people to a website, did that website tell the story that we wanted to? And so I think you also have to sit back. And so my. You know, my next question for you is going to be about the starting block, particularly for those executive directors who don't have marketing experience. They may not have a communications person in their.
00:17:56
In their. On their team. What's the, what's the right starting block for them. But I think, you know, I'll reflect on my own journey here is to say for me it was taking this look holistically at who we were as a third party perspective, looking at the website, saying, okay, what really is the story that we're telling? And as a candidate for the job here, I was like, I don't understand what the association does and I sure as heck don't understand who our members are and what they necessarily do.
00:18:23
And so we have to reset hard on that. Right. Because that needs to be the cornerstone in which we send everyone to. And so again, I'll go back to really the question here. If you're an executive director spot that doesn't have necessarily a marketing firm, I mean of course, you know, Shameless plug here you could always reach out to a great partner like Holloway Media Services.
00:18:48
We work with you on a couple different things and we're really happy with the work that we do. So Shameless plug for you. But if you don't have the funds to do that, how and where do you start? And I will say this Shameless plug for us. You can always come to us at CAAP and we'll help you identify some of those immediate things.
00:19:06
But what could you start? What should a new executive director or executive director who's really looking to establish brand. What are some of the things that you would encourage them to do that they could do on their own? First and foremost? Yeah, and I know this is gonna sound like a heavy list or maybe a heavy lift, but you know, website number one websites, they're a must.
00:19:25
It's not a nice to have anymore. Back in the day when websites were fresh, it was a nice to have, but now it's a must. And especially with organizations like yours Beck, where you could help them establish that website to other, you know, plug and play things. The, the access is there, the access is there. So we need a website.
00:19:49
The other thing would be we're spending over four and a half hours on our phones daily and guess where most of that time is being spent? Social media. On social media. So really, truly it's okay. Think about where.
00:20:05
What is the purpose? We need to be intentional with anything we do, any marketing initiative, anything to grow our brand. We must understand we're going back to the why. Why would we do this? Right?
00:20:17
Well one, a website, if somebody needs help and they have access to the Internet, what are they going to do? Most likely, if they need help and they're searching for an Answer. They're going to go to Google. Right. I need help with.
00:20:31
That's, that's what we're doing. And I'm hearing reports that Google is in trouble because, you know, a couple of years from now, we're not even going to go to Google. We're just going to have AI on our phone and say, tell me where. Right. So search engines may be the dinosaur.
00:20:47
We don't even know. But for now, for today and for the next few years, you must be on and have a website presence, because if your folks are able to get to the Internet, they're going to Google. They know that. Right. They may not have a social media platform, they may not have a phone.
00:21:04
I'm not sure, you know, I'm not sure the level here, but if they do have a phone, they're going to social next. Yep. Well, and from a funding perspective. Right. That really also helps feel, makes a funder feel secure about the level of ability to then deliver, to showcase the fact that you've partnered with them.
00:21:27
And that also matters for them because it also creates brand awareness for them about what their brand is aligned with, which gives their customers a feeling. Right. About all of these pieces that weave together then. And so in order to really, I think effectively fundraise, you be able to have to have a platform to also lift them up if that, if that's a part of what that funder wants, which for the larger businesses. Right.
00:21:47
That's usually a part of what that agreement looks like. So I think it's an important consideration. So I'm trying to think about if there's anything else I want to, want to kind of underscore here. I mean, I guess here's what I will say about CAAP for our agencies who are listening. If you're an executive leader or a member of an organization that we support today, just remember that we can help you start in that journey and try to help you think about some of those pieces.
00:22:13
And for us, the question that I usually always start with is about audience and who you're trying to communicate to primarily. That's going to be my next thing. And not to cut off there, but, you know, I'm talking about website, I'm talking about social website. Who's it for? Is it for the funder?
00:22:31
Is it for the client or the member that you need to help? Is it for both? Right. And there can be a customer journey for both of those people. Yeah.
00:22:43
Right. But you have to be intentional about thinking about it. Right, Right. And Amanda, and if Amanda was Here, this is one of the things that she feels really strongly about. And we've spent, we've worked in a few organizations together and it's something that we always go back to when we explore how to rebuild or look at a website and make sure that we're meeting the expectations and needs of that customer journey.
00:23:01
It's an important thing there. Right. And so for us, our social media speaks primarily to our membership because we're trying to lift them up. Right. And help them feel good about the work that they are doing.
00:23:11
Our website is from the perspective of the general public more than. More than not. Right. And trying to educate about what our agencies do. And then we have our content for our members right behind a locked area to give them access.
00:23:25
So our website, we've decided, really isn't about speaking to our members necessarily. There's a piece of it, but it's primarily outside. And if you're looking for our website, remember the caap.org Again, shameless plug here. Love it. So my last question for you.
00:23:38
I want to make sure to keep our episode here succinct because I know we've gotten a little bit of feedback. We want to make sure to be respectful of people's time and we know you don't have a lot of it. So my question for you to wrap us up here is typically our question is the huggy heart of the matter and asking people about what myths you're busting about community action. But in this instance, I'm going to ask you kind of a little bit of a different version of that question. What have you been surprised about in working with maybe CAAP and talking to some of our agencies?
00:24:07
What's been probably the most most surprising part of your work with us over the course of. I guess we're coming up on maybe a year now or so. Yeah. Anything in particular that surprised you about getting to know us and our network of agencies? Because you were also just a part of our conference recently.
00:24:23
Yeah. A fantastic conference. Thank you so much for the invitation to be there. It was phenomenal to be in a room of all these superhero. Um, and you're a lovely bunch.
00:24:32
I love it so much. I think for me is two things. One, how wide and spread you are, but that there is almost like a best kept secret there. Yeah. That we're, that we're, you know, that's why we're having this conversation and that's why you're here to help all the agencies.
00:24:52
So. So just how large this network is and then the services that you provide. I, I'm lucky. I'm very lucky. I've, I've gone to college, I have a roof over my head.
00:25:08
I have had my struggles, sure. And luckily I've been able to, within my own family, find resources. But it just gives me such hope and such pride for our state of Pennsylvania that we have so many caregivers. Like the world really is a beautiful place. I mean, just look within this organization.
00:25:34
So I'm getting a little huggy heart here, but I just, my heart is overjoyed with one, just how vast you guys are with both size, capacity and the things that you provide and the things that you're doing to provide these agencies so that they can continue to go and keep doing the good work. So yeah, no, thank you for that. Our goal really is right, as a membership based organization, we really try to provide our services almost completely free of charge in order to make sure that resources stay where resources need to because so many people in our state need help. You know, people are literally one emergency away from being reliant on the welfare system or being back in a scenario that they've climbed out of. And once you've climbed out, right, it's, it's, it's easy to find yourself back in, in that situation.
00:26:27
So our agencies, do I say this all the time, they do such a phenomenal job of really thinking about intentional solutions and helping people, you know, through self sufficiency and economic mobility measures and of such a wide variety of ways. And I just, I feel really blessed to be able, be able to be a part of this amazing network of people. And last year alone, right, Community action touched over 503,000 people in the state of Pennsylvania collectively. Right. It's a, it's a huge number of people and, and there are more people than that that need help.
00:26:56
But our ability to do that, you know, relies on the need to continue to fundraise and communicate who we are so that people fund us, so that people come to us, so that they, you know, they know that they can rely on us when, when they need help. So it's all a part of, of brand and communications and, and part of why we invited here today. So appreciate the chance to, to talk a bit. Anything else you want to share before we wrap up? Well, what's blowing my mind right now is if you think about 500,000 people, that's five college football stadiums filled with the people that you've helped, that is humongous.
00:27:29
It's wild. It's wild, wild. And it's just. I'm just. I'm so appreciative to be a part of it.
00:27:34
Yeah. No, thank you. Thank you for your time, talent, resources, everything you're doing behind the scenes. Again, Holloway Media Services, you're a great partner with us, and we appreciate you being here today. Heather, thank you for being a part of our episode.
00:27:46
Thank you. It's been such a thrill. Thanks, Beck. You guys are rock stars. Thank you very much.
00:27:50
I appreciate that. If you have a question for future guests or for Amanda or I, please Remember to email info@thecaap.org. Feel free to send us your questions and hopefully we'll be able to address them on one of our next episodes. So thank you, Heather. Thank you, everybody for listening.
00:28:05
Have a great day. Thank you for being a part of this episode of the ThinkingCAAP. Check the show notes for resources and links to other episodes. And don't forget to subscribe and follow to be notified when new episodes are released. If you have any community action questions you'd like Beck, Amanda, or one of our local experts to answer in a future episode, please email your questions about community action to info@thecaap.org.